Tag Archives: Yamaha CSP-150

Yamaha CSP-170 in the house!

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At long last, my Yamaha CSP-170 Smart Piano arrived!

Classic Pianos Bellevue

Before saying anything else, I want to give a shout-out to Classic Pianos in Bellevue, Washington. I got a friendly and welcoming reception when I visited their showroom in August during my piano quest. I like to support local dealers when possible and Classic Pianos left me with a very positive first impression. [They had to endure my banging around, too.]

Yamaha CSP-170 Smart Piano (matte black)

So, when I heard about close-out pricing on CSP-100 series pianos, I gave them a call. They checked out the situation with Yamaha and offered the reduced price on the Yamaha CSP-170B (matte black) model. The only catch was availability because they needed to place an order with Yamaha. Classic Pianos staff were helpful and courteous during the wait — even checking on the status of their order with Yamaha.

Classic Piano rolled in “white glove” delivery which I did not expect at the close-out price. CSP pianos are quite heavy and assembly would have been a real chunk for two 70 year-olds. Thus, I’m really grateful for the extra service. Martinson Piano Moving handled delivery and in-home set-up.

At this point, all is well. Thank you, Classic Pianos (Bellevue).

Why CSP-170?

Yeah, why? The CSP-170 is the “old” CSP-100 series, right?

If you read my reviews of the Yamaha P-515 and CLP-785, you’ll know that I like the NWX keyboard action and the CFX/Bösendorfer piano sounds. I would have loved to buy the CLP-785, but its price is above my target budget.

My biggest beef with the P-515 (and the CLP series, for that matter) is the relative paucity of secondary sounds. Once you’ve tasted Yamaha MODX or Genos, you know what Yamaha is capable of. The P-515 XG sounds are sufficient for playing back XG MIDI files, but the voices aren’t up to the same quality level as mid- to upper-range Yamaha arranger keyboards or synths.

When the CSP-100 series was first announced, they struck me as innovative, but price-y. The CSP-170 (and 150) secondary sounds are roughly the same as the PSR-SX700 arranger. The extra sounds pushed the initial CSP-170 price ($5,400 USD) above the somewhat comparable CLP-745 (as far as base piano and sound system are concerned.)

Yamaha announced and began shipping the CSP-200 series last Summer. The second generation CSPs have a larger secondary sound set and GrandTouch keyboards. Pricing with respect to CLP remains high due to the CSP’s extra features.

For whatever reason, CSP-100 series were (are?) overstocked. [You can still find close-out CSP-150 and CSP-170 pianos today.] Yamaha reduced the price of the CSP-170B (matte black) model to $3,600 USD. A P-515 package for home costs about $2,000. So, the $1,600 delta above the P-515 buys a very nice cabinet, a superior amplification system, auto-accompaniment, learning features (stream lights) and a wealth of high-quality secondary sounds. Buying a CSP-170 for $3,600 is a bit of a “no brainer”, if you don’t want or need quasi-portability.

As I mentioned, the only catch is availability and waiting time. In a recent earnings call with financial analysts, Yamaha admitted that they have inventory issues and are over-stocked in certain specific product categories (e.g., entry-level digital pianos). Some of the glut is pandemic-related; some excess inventory is due to a slowed Chinese economy. Yamaha may be shifting stock from far away, for all we know. My CSP-170 was manufactured (Indonesia) in November 2022. I’d love to know its history!

Here I am today, a happy camper. I’ll be posting my initial impressions as a new owner/player and will have more to say about the Yamaha Smart Pianist app. Please, stay tuned and thanks for reading.

Copyright © 2023 Paul J. Drongowski

Random weekend thoughts

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A bunch of crazy thoughts after the long holiday weekend…

Yamaha P-S500 price drop

The Yamaha P-S500 is a baby Clavinova Smart Piano (CSP) in the P-series portable digital piano line. The P-S500 has a greatly simplified front panel: ten touch-sensitive control buttons and a 2 line by 16-character display. [Hey, the 1990s called and want their display back!] This user interface parsimony simplifies the overall appearance of the instrument and makes space for the streaming (falling) light display above the keybed. The P-S500 has the CFX piano, of course, and the rather nice Bösendorfer — both enhanced by VRM

Like its CSP brethren, You need the Yamaha Smart Pianist app in order to dig deeper. Once you get below the surface, you’ll find auto-accompaniment and a slew of secondary voices taken from Yamaha’s mid-range arranger keyboards. The S500 voices are roughly equivalent to the PSR-SX600 arranger. Some people trash arrangers, but many of the arranger voices are taken from Motif XF! These voices are much better and cover a wider range of sounds than the recycled string, synth pad, choir, bass and vibraphone in much of the digital piano line. [My only beef with the P-515.]

Why mention any of this? September 1 and new price lists are out. Initially, the P-S500 was offered at $2,000 (MAP). Presto chango, and the new MAP price is $1,600 USD, same as the P-515.

At the new price, I think it’s worth considering as an alternative to the P-515. Unfortunately, the S500 has only the GHS action, losing the rather wonderful, P-515 NWX action. You also give up 5-pin MIDI. Worth a look if these things aren’t important to ya.

Hey, Yamaha!

Wanna sell more P-S500s? Put them in Music & Arts retail stores where people can find them. I have yet to see an P-S500 in the flesh…

While you’re at it, rename the “Smart Pianist Specifications” PDF to something meaningful to a customer. I installed Smart Pianist on my iPad to see see its tricks. Without Smart Pianist being connected to a compatible keyboard, I didn’t get clue one about what it can do. Open “Smart Pianist Specifications,” however, and I see the Smart Pianist features supported by each of the compatible keyboards — quite helpful to a prospective customer who wants to know what Smart Pianist can do.

Yamaha, do real people actually test your keybeds? I can’t imagine inflicting the GHC (P-225) keyboard on beginners. Stop being so secretive and get these things into the hands of real customers! The GHC needs to be fixed, now, before production ramps up. Try before buy, folks, as GHC is not merely an improved GHS.

Finger drum pads

The Yamaha FGDP Finger Drum Pads have dropped (finally). Thanks go to all of the sleuths who uncovered the FGDP trademark and so forth. The FGDP-30 and and FGDP-50 will advertise for $199 USD (USA MAP) and $299, respectively.

Yamaha FGDP-30 and FGDP-50: Recognize that trademark logo?

Yamaha, since the Montage M doesn’t have drum pads, did you test the FGDP-30 and FGDP-50 with Montage M? 🙂

Presence, absence.

I’m not the only person to notice the absence of Montage M leak stories on MusicRadar, Gearnews, and a few of the other big-name Web sites. Yet, there were the FGDPs big as life on MusicRadar this morning.

My guess? They all have Montage M review units and are under NDA. Expect Montage M reviews when the news embargo is lifted on announcement day.

Copyright © 2023 Paul J. Drongowski

Yamaha CSP pianos: First take

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Yamaha just announced the Clavinova CSP series of digital pianos. There are two models: CSP-150 and CSP-170. The main differences between the 170 and 150 are keyboard action (NWX and GH3X, respectively) and sound system (2 x 45W and 2 x 30W, respectively). USA MSRP list prices are $5,399 to $5,999, and $3,999 to $4,599 USD.

These are not stage pianos. They are “furniture” pianos which complement and fit below the existing CLP line.

Here’s my imagined notion of the product pitch meeting:

Digital piano meets arranger meets Rock Band. Let’s say that you don’t have much (any) musical training, but you want to play along with Katy Perry. Sit down at the CSP with your smart device, install the Smart Pianist app and connect via Bluetooth. Call up “Roar” in the app and get a simple musical score. Start the song, follow the LEDs above the keys and play along with the audio. The app stays in sync with the audio and highlights the notes to be played on each beat. So, if you learned a little bit about reading music, you’re good to go.

Sorry, a little bit more than an elevator pitch, but this is first draft writing! 🙂

That is CSP in a nutshell. The CSP is a first-rate piano and it has a decent collection of non-piano voices and arranger styles. The CSP even includes the Hammond-ish “organ flutes” drawbar organ voices. So, if you want to jam out with electric guitar, you’re set. If you want to play chords with your left hand and freestyle it, the CSP is ready.

If you’re looking for a full arranger workstation, though, you’re missing some features. No pitch bend wheel, no mod wheel, no multipads, no accompaniment section (MAIN, FILL, …) buttons. No voice editing; all voices are preset.

And hey, there’s no display either! The Smart Pianist app is your gateway to the CSP feature set. You can select from a few voices and styles using the FUNCTION button and the piano keyboard, but you need the app to make full use of the CSP. Eliminating the CLP’s touch panel, lights and switches takes a lot of cost out of the product, achieving a more affordable price point.

I could see the CSP appealing to churches as well as home players given the quality of the piano and acoustic voices. Flipping the ON switch and playing piano is just what a lot of liturgical music ministers want. The more tech savvy will dig in. Pastors will appreciate the lower price of the CSP line.

From the perspective of an arranger guy, the CSP represents a shift away from the standard arranger. For decades, people want to play with their favorite pop tunes. In order to use a conventional arranger (no matter what brand), the musician must find a suitable style and the musician must have the musical skill to play a chord with the left hand, even if it’s just the root note of the chord. Often the accompaniment doesn’t really “sound like the record” and the player feels disappointed, unskilled and depressed. Shucks, I feel this way whenever I make another attempt at playing guitar and at least I can read music!

The CSP is a new paradigm that addresses these concerns. First, the (budding) musician plays with the actual recording. Next, the app generates a simplified musical score — no need to chase after sheet music. The score matches the actual audio and the app leads the player through the score in sync with the audio. Finally, the CSP’s guide lights make a game of playing the notes in the simplified score.

We’ve already seen apps from Yamaha with some of these features. Chord Tracker analyzes a song from your audio music library and generates a chord chart. Kittar breaks a song down into musical phrases that can be repeated, transposed and slowed down for practice. The Smart Pianist app includes Chord Tracker functionality and takes it to another level producing a two stave piano score.

Notice that I said “a score” not “the score.” Yamaha’s audio analysis only needs to be good enough to produce a simple left hand part and the melody. It does not need to generate the full score for a piece of music. Plus, there are likely to be legal copyright issues with the generation of a full score. (A derivative work?)

Still, this is an impressive technical feat and is the culmination of years of research in music analysis. Yamaha have invested heavily in music analysis and hold many patents. Here are a few examples:

  • U.S. Patent 9,378,719: Technique for analyzing rhythm structure of music audio data, June 28, 2016
  • Patent 9,117,432: Apparatus and method for detecting chords, August 25, 2015
  • U.S. Patent 9,053,696: Searching for a tone data set based on a degree of similarity to a rhythm pattern, June 9, 2015
  • U.S. Patent 9,006,551: Musical performance-related information output device, April 14, 2015
  • Patent 9,275,616: Associating musical score image data and logical musical score data, March 1, 2016
  • U.S. Patent 9,142,203: Music data generation based on text-format chord chart, September 22, 2015

The last patent is not music analysis per se. It may be one of several patents covering technology that we will see in the next Yamaha top of the line (TOTL) arranger workstation.

I think we will be seeing more features based on music analysis. Yamaha’s stated mission is to make products that delight customers and to provide features that are not easily copied by competitors. Yamaha have staked out a strong patent position in this area let alone climbing over the steep technological barrier posed by musical analysis of audio.

Copyright © 2017 Paul J. Drongowski